The door to Madison’s bedroom closed behind them.
Cindy was fully supported in Evan Kingsley’s hand, unable to do anything but feel the warmth radiating up through Evan’s palm. The house outside the heated habitat felt cooler, and Cindy’s body responded almost immediately, leaning into the warmth before her pride could stop it.
She hated that.
She hated how quickly her body betrayed her now. The habitat had been humiliating, but it was warm. Predictable. Climate controlled. The rest of the house, her house, felt like open air and danger. A normal hallway had become a long exposed passage. A staircase had become a cliffside descent. A teenage girl’s hand had become transportation.
Evan moved down the hall with an ease Cindy no longer possessed.
“Oh good, you brought your tablet,” Evan said, glancing down. “It would be horrible if you couldn’t work on Brooklyn and Ava’s homework. I mean, you have all night to do Madison’s. You don’t want to send them home without completed work, do you, Cindy?”
Cindy’s fingers tightened around the tablet.
“Ms. Kingsley, look,” Cindy said carefully. “Let’s talk about this.”
Evan raised an eyebrow. “Talk about what? We’re just going downstairs. I figured you’d want some time out of your habitat.”
“I know you’re still upset about what I said about Charity.”
Evan’s expression changed.
Not dramatically. Not enough that anyone downstairs would have noticed if they were watching. But Cindy felt it through the girl’s hand, through the pause in her steps, through the tiny tightening of her fingers.
“No,” Evan said. “I think we’re past talking.”
Cindy’s stomach tightened.
“You’re a Little, Cindy,” Evan continued, walking toward the stairs. “And what was it you used to say? Oh yeah. A good Little speaks when spoken to and minds their Little manners.”
Cindy lowered her eyes.
“I believe I asked you about homework,” Evan said. “Last time I checked, that’s one of your roles now, isn’t it? I mean, I get that it’s taking you away from cleaning toilets in your little harness, but still.”
Cindy’s face burned.
The stairs appeared ahead of them, each step dropping away with a stomach-turning rhythm as Evan descended. Cindy had once walked these stairs without thinking. She had carried laundry baskets down them, called for Madison to stop leaving shoes at the bottom, told Greg the railing needed tightening before someone got hurt.
Now she clung to a tablet and trusted Evan Kingsley not to drop her.
The noise from the living room grew louder with each step.
Teenage laughter. Voices overlapping. The television blaring too loudly. The smell of Pizza Rolls and warm sauce drifting through the air. The house felt alive, but not in the way Cindy remembered. Not the comfortable life of family dinners, homework reminders, and Greg watching sports with one eye while pretending to listen.
This was something else.
Occupation.
Evan carried her into the living room proper, and Cindy saw it all at once.
Brooklyn was sprawled across the couch like she had claimed it by divine right. Krysi was perched nearby with a plate of Pizza Rolls, talking around a laugh. Ava sat cross-legged on the floor, still flushed from whatever ridiculous dancing she had been doing earlier. Madison was seated with Greg in her lap, one hand resting protectively around him while the other gently stroked along his back.
Cindy saw the Pizza Roll near Greg.
She saw the way Madison had opened it for him.
She saw the way Greg sat there, small and careful, but not terrified. Not humiliated in the way Cindy felt. He looked uncomfortable, yes, but also included. Loved. Warm.
For one terrible second, Cindy resented him for it.
Then Greg looked up and saw her.
His expression changed immediately.
Concern.
Recognition.
A silent question he could not safely ask.
Cindy looked away first.
“It looks like Greggy got a Pizza Roll,” Evan said brightly. “I’d offer you some, but you don’t do people food. Wouldn’t want you getting sick.”
Brooklyn looked over from the couch, grinning. “Oh my god, did she bring the tablet?”
“She did,” Evan said, sounding pleased. “Very responsible.”
Madison’s eyes flicked to Cindy, then to the tablet. “Good. You have a lot to finish.”
Cindy swallowed. “Yes, Ms. Wessen.”
Krysi leaned forward slightly, studying Cindy with open curiosity. “Is she doing all of it tonight?”
“Madison’s first,” Brooklyn said. “Then mine.”
“And Ava’s,” Madison added.
Ava winced a little. “Mine’s not that bad.”
Brooklyn looked at her. “You say that because you’re not the one doing it.”
Ava shrugged. “Fair.”
“I’m sure we can get Cindy some Little pellets as a treat later,” Evan said as she sat down near Brooklyn. “Though I don’t know if she’s earned a snack yet. Not with Brooklyn and Ava’s homework unfinished.”
“Little Cindy will get it done,” Brooklyn said brightly. “I know she will. The great Cindy Wessen is a hard Little worker.”
Cindy could not say anything.
She hated this.
In this body, they would not listen to her. They treated her like a Little because that was what she was to them now. They did not understand, and worse, Cindy was running out of ways to make them understand.
“Ms. Wessen,” Cindy started, looking toward Madison.
Madison’s gaze dropped to her. “What?”
For a moment, Cindy almost asked to sit with Greg. She almost asked for Madison to take her instead of leaving her with Evan. She almost said she was cold, tired, humiliated, overwhelmed. She almost said something human.
Then she saw Brooklyn watching.
Evan smiling.
Krysi interested.
Ava uncomfortable but quiet.
Greg tense in Madison’s lap.
The words shriveled.
“Nothing, Ms. Wessen,” Cindy said. “I’ll work.”
Madison studied her for a second, then nodded. “Good.”
It should not have hurt.
It did.
Evan leaned toward Brooklyn before Cindy could fully settle. Cindy watched Evan’s hand extend toward the coffee table. Charity stood there, small and composed, waiting with the kind of patience that made Cindy feel even more clumsy by comparison.
Charity stepped confidently into Evan’s hand.
She looked up at Evan with a warm little smile.
“There’s my little Charizard,” Evan said.
Charity’s smile softened. “Yes, Ms. Evan.”
Evan returned to the couch and got comfortable, then carefully set both Charity and Cindy into her lap.
The difference was immediate.
Charity settled naturally against the fabric of Evan’s yoga pants, knees folded beneath her, posture balanced, hands resting neatly in her lap. She knew where to sit. How much space to take. How to remain visible without drawing attention. How to be present without becoming a problem.
Cindy sat stiffly beside her, tablet clutched to her chest like a shield.
She had never felt more amateur.
From Madison’s lap, Greg watched them. Cindy could feel his gaze. She did not look back.
The girls resumed talking above them almost instantly.
To them, Cindy and Charity had been placed.
That was all.
The conversation rolled on around them as if nothing significant had happened. School. Boys. Some argument in Ava’s class. A video Brooklyn insisted was hilarious. Krysi complaining that Madison’s freezer snacks were better than hers. Madison laughing at something Brooklyn said while her hand continued to pet Greg with absent affection.
Cindy looked around the living room from the unfamiliar height.
Her living room.
Her couch.
Her coffee table.
Her television.
Her home.
And yet nothing in the room seemed to belong to her anymore.
There were crumbs on the coffee table. Someone’s shoes were half kicked under the side chair. A throw pillow lay on the floor. The television volume was too high. The girls had drinks without coasters.
Once, Cindy would have corrected all of it.
Not angrily, necessarily. Just automatically. Shoes by the rack. Coasters under drinks. Food stays in the kitchen unless someone asks. Lower the volume. Madison, pick up the pillow.
Now the corrections sat trapped behind her teeth.
She could almost feel the old version of herself standing in the doorway, arms crossed, surveying the room with tired authority. That Cindy would have sighed, and the girls would have groaned, but they would have listened eventually.
This Cindy sat in Evan Kingsley’s lap and opened Brooklyn’s homework.
Charity shifted slightly beside her.
Cindy glanced over.
Charity was not looking at her. Not directly. Her eyes were forward, her expression controlled, her body relaxed in a way Cindy could not mimic. Charity’s collar caught the living room light when she moved, a small flash at her throat.
Cindy knew Charity Stevens before this.
Not deeply. Not personally. Charity had been part of another world. Events. Donations. Families with money and influence. Polite conversations at parties where everyone smiled and measured each other at the same time. Cindy had known her parents, or at least known of them. She knew the fall. Everyone did. The tragic collapse, the shrinking, the humiliation that must have followed.
Once, Cindy had pitied Charity. She was bright but she also remembered herself saying she was smart for an animal.
Now Charity sat beside her with more status.
More permission.
More freedom.
The unfairness of it made Cindy’s hands shake slightly as she tapped open Brooklyn’s class portal.
Charity noticed.
Of course she noticed.
She did not say anything.
That almost made it worse.
Cindy knew Charity would not speak here. Not now. Charity was too smart for that. Any comment she had to make would come privately, quietly, when the girls were distracted or when Evan was not listening. Charity understood timing. She understood social rooms. She understood how to survive under attention.
Cindy had understood those things once too.
Apparently, not anymore.
“Cindy,” Brooklyn called from above.
Cindy looked up quickly. “Yes, Ms. Reynolds?”
Brooklyn smiled. “Make sure my science answers don’t sound like Madison wrote them. No offense, Mads.”
Madison looked offended anyway. “Excuse you.”
“You write like you’re trying to sound smart,” Brooklyn said.
“I am smart.”
“Exactly. That’s the problem.”
Krysi laughed. “She’s not wrong.”
Madison threw a pillow at her, missing by a mile.
Cindy kept her face blank. “Yes, Ms. Reynolds. I’ll make sure the tone is appropriate.”
Brooklyn pointed at her. “See? Useful.”
The word landed heavily.
Useful.
Not respected.
Not free.
Useful.
Beside her, Charity’s fingers tightened briefly against her own knee. It was a tiny motion, almost invisible. Cindy saw it anyway.
For the first time, she wondered if Charity hated the word too.
Evan shifted, and both Littles moved slightly with the motion of her lap. Charity adjusted immediately. Cindy had to grab the tablet to keep it from sliding.
Evan looked down. “Careful, Cindy.”
“Yes, Ms. Kingsley.”
“Don’t drop the tablet. Madison will be annoyed.”
“Yes, Ms. Kingsley.”
From across the room, Madison looked over. “She better not. That tablet was expensive.”
Greg’s mouth tightened.
Cindy saw it.
Madison probably did too, because her fingers moved over Greg’s back again, soothing him before he could say anything.
The gesture was gentle.
Possessive.
Cindy looked away and began typing.
The first question was about Little physiology and reinforcement response.
Of course it was.
Her throat tightened as she read the prompt.
Above her, the girls laughed about something on the television. Greg took another small bite of Pizza Roll from Madison’s lap. Charity sat beside Cindy like a quiet, polished reminder of everything Cindy was not.
Cindy placed her fingers on the tablet keyboard.
For a moment, she did nothing.
Then Evan’s hand came down, one finger brushing lightly over the top of Cindy’s head.
It was not quite a pet.
Not quite a warning.
“Go on,” Evan said. “You’re good at this.”
Cindy hated the warmth that flickered through her chest.
She hated Brooklyn’s science lesson.
She hated her body.
She hated that part of her wanted to be told she was doing well.
“Yes, Ms. Kingsley,” Cindy said softly.
And then, sitting in Evan’s lap beside Charity Stevens, beneath the thunder of teenage voices in what used to be her living room, Cindy began Brooklyn’s homework.
See! They taunt her! Belittle her and just degrade her! Now she deserves it all but! How does Madison expect her to assimilate if she treats her different to her dad! Now granted Cindy still needs to accept she’s a little first!
Another note! Dear god I hate Evan! Manipulator
Well you can’t assimilate if you also don’t accept being a little.
I don’t think they are degrading her when it’s her own methods and ideals that are being used.
Her teachings were degradation and dehumanization, so they are following her methods BY degrading her. So it is both.
It very much gives “The (emotional) beatings will continue until morale improves.”
Madison wants Cindy to accept being a Little, but the way she treats Cindy often makes that harder. Greg gets the softer version because he resists less, but also because Madison’s relationship with him is different. With Cindy, there is years of resentment, history, and irony mixed in.
A big part of Madison’s treatment of Cindy is that, in Madison’s mind, she is honoring what her mother taught her. Cindy believed Littles needed structure, correction, humility, and clear boundaries. So Madison is applying Cindy’s own worldview back onto Cindy. That does not mean Madison would treat every Little exactly the same way she treats Cindy.
If Madison had another Little, like the Japanese Little she wants, I don’t think there is automatically reason to assume that Little would get the full Cindy treatment. Madison does believe in parts of what Cindy, society, and school taught her, but she is still her own person. We see that with Greg. She can be affectionate, softer, and more flexible when she does not have the same emotional baggage.
So Cindy does need to adjust, but Madison is not exactly creating the easiest path for that. She thinks she is enforcing reality and honoring her mother’s beliefs, but a lot of it also comes across as humiliation and payback because it is Cindy specifically.
Ava winced a little. “Mine’s not that bad.”
interesting reaction from Ava. maybe i’m just reading too much into it, but i’ve been kinda feeling like the people that start guardian training with these extreme beliefs but are otherwise good people tend to mellow out after the fact. Granted….the only other person i can think of is Dayton, and she didn’t even really mellow out to me until the raid on the school, but still, the edges softened noticeably
Also, Cindy could learn from Charity a bit more just based on what Cindy noticed. Charity for sure cares for Evan at this point, but i also think she knows how to play the game. she’s got way more experience in it than Cindy at least, both as a little and as a powerful social figure. That’s what Cindy should mimic a bit more, just to get by, then when alone she can vent.
I think you nailed it. Charity excepted being a little but is using it to her advantage when she can because she is so smart. Cindy should take notes
I generally dont view or write poeple with specifically like this is a good person this is a bad person. they all have beliefs and things they like and dont like. They all have opinions on what Cindy has done and said. they have opinions on what Greg has done and said.
Ava and her family have a soft spot for Greg. they view him as a good person. A selfless person who ended up with Smallara and didnt deserve it.
Cindy, they don’t have nice things to say or think about the person who was racists, bigoted towards them. Who had nothing nice to say about them. Who went out of her way to show she was better than them without making herself look bad.
I must have missed it. What did Cindy say about Charity that offended Evan, and does it date back to Evan’s World?
I think it was briefly touched on at school. it was more the ways that Cindy tried coaching Evan into managing and training Charity that she took issue with. not to say there wasn’t something specific, just that at least seemed to be the issue.
CM summed up what has been discussed so far.
I think it’s time for Madison to limit their mom to doing Madison’s homework & let’ the other girls littles do their homework.
I don’t see that happening. Heck, she may get even more homework.
Yeah that’s unlikely. Especially as most days Greg is helping so it’s not as much as today
Sigh ….. let me get my drink 🍺….. ahhh okay I’m ready for the more shit that Cindy is going to get again like I’m fine with people getting karma but damn there has to be some limit to this …..no no J no … just going to wait and see at this point
Yup, that’s about the rub of it.
Madison and her friends bullying Cindy while Greg watches silently eating pizza rolls, doing nothing as he always does, pretending he had no responsibility in how his wife treated those around her, even their children, because he was comfortable and didn’t want the conflict. And he is willing to sacrifice anyone’s dignity and well being, even the mother of his children whom he married and supported, as long as he can have some pizza rolls.
Oh but he tightened his mouth and told Madison “She is trying” or some weak shit.
What can Greg actually do? As far as the girls are concerned, he is a Little, so his views do not matter. He could try to protest or put his foot down, but the result would not be good, neither for him nor Cindy. His best option is to comply as best he can, and when possible nudge the girls towards a different attitude.
I have seen your comments regarding Greg’s action prior to shrinking and I understand where you are coming from. It has given me some pause to rethink my views about him, but his pre-shrunk actions are water under the bridge at this point. He has to deal with his current reality.
I disagree that he is “sacrificing anyone’s dignity and well being”, he is doing what he can for Cindy. It may not seem like much, but again, he has little sway with the girls. They listen to him sometimes, but his views have been dismissed most of the time.
As far as how Cindy is treated (I don’t like it, but…), the girls have all drunk pre-Smallara Cindy’s Kool-aid. They believe everything she espoused, so they are treating her accordingly.
Until Madison develops a different mindset (which would take either a long time or some substantial event), Cindy is going to have to live in the world she taught the girls to create.
Cindy accepting that she is a Little would go a long way towards Madison easing up on her. We see again in this episode that Cindy still thinks of herself as something other than a Little.
He has literally tried nothing more than little suggestions. What is the worst that Kenzie would do to him if he suggested to her that he really would rather sleep in the same bed as his wife, even if her habitat is more comfortable. Or how about if he told Madison that he would really like to help Cindy instead of sitting there watching her toil away.
Because Kenzie is supposed to be against Cindy’s beliefs. She is supposed to be better. Would she really punish him for telling her how he feels? Or, is he perfectly fine letting the woman who gave birth to his children, be treated as less than a dog, for views he didn’t really see as bad enough that he would be willing to have a difficult conversation about, and for her to do it alone.
The whole point is that he is a shitty husband, because he is willing to let her suffer alone, because of the little comforts he has been given.
It is cowardly
I agree, it seems her Karma lesson is almost done when she admits she is a little lol
Idk, I just think if this is Karma for her, then Greg’s should be suffering right next to her. After all, he stood right next to her while she preached her bullshit out into the world, so he can stand there with her now.
But his daughters don’t quite understand what an enabler is yet so he gets to pretend he had nothing to do with it.
Idk, I couldn’t sit by and watch my wife get tortured like that while I am sitting comfortable. I think anyone with a spine would at least suggest to stay with her or ask to help her.
Then again, I would never marry a pro slavery activist and I think you would have to be a huge piece of shit to look past that.
I strongly disagree with the idea that Greg is just as guilty as Cindy.
Cindy was not some helpless passenger in her own beliefs. She chose them. She promoted them. She built a public identity around them. Greg did not force her to do that, and being married to her does not make him responsible for every belief she chose to spread.
Greg being passive is a flaw. I’m not denying that. But passivity is not the same thing as advocacy. Not fighting Cindy hard enough does not mean Greg secretly supported everything she believed. It means he avoided conflict, prioritized keeping his family together, and failed to care enough about a problem that did not affect him yet.
That is not admirable, but it also does not make him Cindy.
I also think it ignores a huge part of Greg’s character to reduce him to “spineless guy who only cares about comfort.” Greg was a good father. Not perfect, but good. He was present. He loved Madison and McKenzie. He went to their events, supported their interests, spent time with them, tried to soften some of Cindy’s harder edges, and cared about keeping the family together. A lot of his choices came from that place.
You can argue that he should have challenged Cindy harder. I think that’s fair. But from Greg’s perspective, blowing up his marriage did not just mean winning a moral argument. It meant risking the family structure his daughters lived in. It meant possibly losing access to his kids, damaging their home life, and turning their family into a battlefield over a cause he did not fully understand or prioritize at the time.
That does not make him heroic. But it does make him human.
If every person who fails to fight a bad system is morally identical to the people actively building that system, then almost everyone is guilty of almost everything. Most people are not activists. Most people are not risking their marriage, children, livelihood, safety, or family stability for every moral issue around them. That does not make them heroes, but it also does not make them monsters.
Greg’s failure was ordinary. Cindy’s was active.
That distinction matters.
Cindy is reaping the consequences of a worldview she actively promoted. Greg is dealing with the consequences of silence, fear, passivity, and prioritizing family peace over a fight he should have cared more about. Those consequences should force him to reflect, and they are. But he is not Cindy’s moral equal in this.
Greg is not pro-Little mistreatment. He is not someone who wanted this for Cindy. He is a flawed husband who avoided conflict, but also a father who genuinely loved his daughters and tried to give them a stable life. That’s why I don’t view him as some horrible person who deserves to suffer right beside Cindy as if he preached the same things she did.
You really think if the government told you that little slaves enjoy being slaves, even when the little is someone you know or is your parents who raised you, you would just believe them and not at least try to fight it in any way you can? Which, to be clear, can be as easy as just voting against the pro slavery agenda or even just speaking out.
I would think you would have to be pretty gullible and heartless to just be like, “At least it ain’t me”. Not like the government is turning them into littles.
Also, Ezra’s points were all correct. He was just bullying a teenage girl and taking it out on her because he is a weirdo. He was fully right though. The fact that all of the teachers seem to understand this fact, but are forced to teach kids actual slavery, is fucking wild.
To the other point, yes, if my wife started preaching that a vulnerable population that needs assistance deserved to be collared, dehumanized, and ground into submission simply because we can, and started lobbying to force other people’s children to learn this in school, I would communicate how monsterous and, frankly, stupid that is, and if she doesn’t completely 180 on that issue, I would separate from her and do everything I could to help my children understand why slavery is wrong, absolutely.
But Greg has shown how spineless he is. Cindy chose a spineless chode for a husband and now he won’t stand up and support her out of fear that his teenage daughter will take his pizza roll privileges away.
with figurative gun to their head or the threat of being disappeared in an authoritarian surveillance state that jumped at the first chance to consolidate power under a single entity all while having control over a massive propaganda machine? i think people in general would probably, and historically have, stayed silent and not fought it. not effectively anyway. Yeah Greg and others in Smallara could absolutely vote against it, and a fair amount probably did, but how do we know the votes just weren’t thrown out in this universe? Littles can vote in Smallara too, but what are the odds their votes are taken seriously at all compared to just seeing what their guardian said and having 2 votes for the price of one?
Me specifically? I’d do and say whatever it took to make sure my mom and dad were safe, or whoever it is that i care about, story or in real life. I already have lol but I place a massive value on Family, so I would want to act on that value vs other values I have regarding fairness and justice. If my family and loved ones were totally safe? that’d be different.
as far as gullibility goes, yeah people are gullible, in groups they’re even worse. Cynically so. Men in Black said it best: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals. Whether or not they’re heartless is a harder thing to determine. i think that’s all based on perspective and nuance in terms of real life. in Smallara, I don’t think they’re heartless, just under heavy messaging
agree with you on ezra. he was 100% right. Thats why they went through the effort of silencing him and making sure what he’s saying didn’t go public. A little speaking sense to the country would spread like fire even in a surveillance state and it would raise more questions that the government could handle if it did get out. Other than that though, i think the only things littles really have to worry about is infrastructure and safety against predators, which Generitech has been shouldering as best they can, but Smallara is really different in terms of corporations because of the fact that there is a super powered corp that is selling littles and little products for profit while also doing the best to make sure they are cared for, current situations withstanding. They don’t have to have the little cities, push back against government policies in the government itself, release various products to make littles lives a bit more comfortable, try to recreate things they had at their full size scaled down to their new size, or find ways that they can still contribute and have a society, but they do. you could argue its because they want to make money, and yeah that is for sure part of it, but at the same time if they didn’t care about littles on some level, they wouldn’t be trying to remain the defacto company selling littles in the Smallara United States and just let preema tech do it and they probably wouldn’t have gone through the effort to make it so all unclaimed littles are, until assigned, under the guardianship of the owners daughter. (sorry, rambling a lot lol)
and yeah i think your stance on splitting in marriage at that point is a fair stance. Greg not doing so or putting more effort into it with his family was and still is wrong, and you’re right to point that out. I think you and I are in agreement on that now, it’s just the amount of culpability to assign is where we differ, but that’s not an issue, not to me at least. You, appreciatively, keep it real and grounded. like i said earlier, i honestly probably wouldn’t have thought too much about greg in this manner and just looked at him as a pure victim if you weren’t commenting,
Hold up, are you saying they get “disappeared” for just protesting against straight up slavery? I didn’t know that. But yes, even throughout history, the only reason things actually ended up changing is because of people risking shit to change it. And when a population gets desperate enough, when they see their family members being enslaved, having their kids, parents, friends, spouses, be called an animal as if they are dumber and having to be collared and trained like a pet, all ran by a couple of obscenely rich corporations, it would be real hard not to get radicalized.
I mean, if I had a daughter and she got smallera, and the government said I had to get approval from some soulless corporation to keep my daughter from literal slavery, I would do everything I could to make sure she was safe, and then do everything I could to help burn that system to the fucking ground. I can’t imagine the soulless fucks who can support that.
I strongly disagree with the idea that Greg is just as guilty as Cindy.
Cindy was not some helpless passenger in her own beliefs. She chose them. She promoted them. She built a public identity around them. Greg did not force her to do that, and being married to her does not make him responsible for every belief she chose to spread.
Greg being passive is a flaw. I’m not denying that. But passivity is not the same thing as advocacy. Not fighting Cindy hard enough does not mean Greg secretly supported everything she believed. It means he avoided conflict, prioritized keeping his family together, and failed to care enough about a problem that did not affect him yet.
That is not admirable, but it also does not make him Cindy.
I also think it ignores a huge part of Greg’s character to reduce him to “spineless guy who only cares about comfort.” Greg was a good father. Not perfect, but good. He was present. He loved Madison and McKenzie. He went to their events, supported their interests, spent time with them, tried to soften some of Cindy’s harder edges, and cared about keeping the family together. A lot of his choices came from that place.
You can argue that he should have challenged Cindy harder. I think that’s fair. But from Greg’s perspective, blowing up his marriage did not just mean winning a moral argument. It meant risking the family structure his daughters lived in. It meant possibly losing access to his kids, damaging their home life, and turning their family into a battlefield over a cause he did not fully understand or prioritize at the time.
That does not make him heroic. But it does make him human.
If every person who fails to fight a bad system is morally identical to the people actively building that system, then almost everyone is guilty of almost everything. Most people are not activists. Most people are not risking their marriage, children, livelihood, safety, or family stability for every moral issue around them. That does not make them heroes, but it also does not make them monsters.
Greg’s failure was ordinary. Cindy’s was active.
That distinction matters.
Cindy is reaping the consequences of a worldview she actively promoted. Greg is dealing with the consequences of silence, fear, passivity, and prioritizing family peace over a fight he should have cared more about. Those consequences should force him to reflect, and they are. But he is not Cindy’s moral equal in this.
Greg is not pro-Little mistreatment. He is not someone who wanted this for Cindy. He is a flawed husband who avoided conflict, but also a father who genuinely loved his daughters and tried to give them a stable life. That’s why I don’t view him as some horrible person who deserves to suffer right beside Cindy as if he preached the same things she did.
I never said he was JUST as much at fault, but he is much more at fault than people are acting. And when I say he supported her, I mean in a literal sense. Being in a marriage means you support each other. Financially and emotionally. And yes, being passive in the face of your wife literally helping to make the education pro slavery, means he is, at a base line, okay with those beliefs. If he wasn’t okay with them, he would’ve shown that before becoming little. No, that doesn’t make him as bad as Cindy. But if I was a little being treated like that by her, and I saw her aloof, himbo husband just ignoring literal slavery, and then they shrank, he is also catching a lot of shit.
Again, dude is not in a normal situation. He is literally married to a lobbyist for a pro slavery agenda. She has political donors. She literally helped change school curriculum to teach other people’s kids pro slavery propaganda. This isn’t the same as ignoring human rights violations in China or the Middle East. This is marrying a plantation owner and then acting like you were always against it after the civil war.
Like I said, he had no problem standing by her when he was big, but now that he is little he wants to abandon her? Now it is all “You know what, I never really thought about how every time my wife was bullying fucking teenagers who shrank and acting like they were dumb little dogs, that maybe I should say something.” Or that maybe, by not teaching his daughters that this is wrong, he helped make them the monsters they are today and he deserves to stand by the monster he loves, instead of tucking tail for a few shirts and head pats.
I think you keep forgetting one salient point. According to Science, the government, and Cindy, Littles are not human. Science has classified them as a different species. So they have no human rights.
Personally I don’t agree with that philosophy. Like you I would advocate for them if someone I cared for was affected by the disease.
However, I can see many people that had not been directly impacted by Smallara being complacent about how they are treated. I don’t remember the statistics that were made about what percentage of the population was affected, but it is evidently low enough for the majority of the population to not care enough to buck the system. And if you believe they aren’t human ( domesticated animals was the term that has been used) then why bother? Plus the government and corporations are spinning the whole thing as something positive.
Remember, this an alternate universe, not ours, so the thinking and morality are different. (To be continued, editor problems)
Who cares if they aren’t human? And that is frankly nonsense anyway. Why would their dna being different mean anything? Human rights are based on our ability to reason and communicate what we think, not our DNA or species. The fact that they can still communicate and think all the same, means that all of this humiliation is just for the benefit of people in power exerting that power on a vulnerable population. Anyone who sees them speak at all would either have to be ignorant or just a piece of shit to keep believing they are the same as dogs.
The definition of human rights is that they are applied to everyone for being human. The only qualification to receive human rights is being human.
So homo parvus not being classified as human makes them not eligible. Becuase as long as you are considered human nothing else matters as no other status can negate your ability to recieve human rights. But if you aren’t human, then you fall short of the only qualification.
Defination: Human rights are inherent rights that belong to every person simply by being human, regardless of nationality, sex, ethnicity, religion, language, or any other status
I agree with that viewpoint in our reality today, but go back to the 1700s America and try that argument in the South. They argued that Blacks were not human and justified slavery with that view. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s conceivable that a population would accept that type of thinking. So, why not accept (for the purposes of the story) that a population would accept the premise that Asuka has established?
A point I would like to make is most people are like Greg and just want to go to work and keep their marriage together and spend time with their kids. People don’t want to be a protester. If anything most people want activists fired at work because they are making their work place miserable. Just because one person is really against something, doesn’t mean they have to bother others to change their already hard life to care also. Greg focusing on work,family & his kids and not what his wife is talking about that matches what the government is saying is not great but not evil.
I have had a very hard time getting my head into this universe. If you look back at some very early posts by me, I was almost angry with Asuka at times. The unfairness of this universe is one of things that keeps me reading.
That and my many many years of experience have led me to accept that sometimes life sucks. History has demonstrated that time and again.
As far as the slavery issue, it has happened before so it could happen again. And regarding complacency to the government pushing this policy, look at Nazi Germany, many people looked the other way while Jews and Poles were targeted. They were happy that it wasn’t them, or they believed the propaganda. So I can accept that in this universe that a majority of the population is accepting the policy. It happened again in South Africa with Apartheid, and I’m sure there are still plenty of places today where groups of people are reduced to almost nothing because the government says so.
So, there is nothing wrong with being outraged, but accept that this is the reality in this universe.
I will say this has been an interesting thought exercise. I will address your points more directly below.
I think this argument puts too much responsibility for Cindy’s choices onto Greg.
The first issue is the idea that being married to Cindy means Greg literally supported everything she believed. I disagree with that. Marriage means emotional support, financial partnership, raising children together, and building a life. It does not mean one spouse becomes equally responsible for every political or moral belief the other spouse promotes.
Cindy believed what she believed. Cindy promoted what she promoted. Cindy built her platform. Greg did not create those beliefs for her, and he did not force her to make them public.
The second issue is treating Greg’s passivity as the same thing as advocacy. Those are not the same. Greg should have pushed back more. That is fair. But failing to fight Cindy hard enough does not mean Greg was pro-Little mistreatment. It means he was complacent. He avoided conflict. He prioritized his marriage, his children, and family stability over a moral issue that did not personally affect him at the time.
That is a flaw, but it is not the same flaw Cindy has.
Cindy was active. Greg was passive.
That distinction matters.
The third issue is applying our real-world moral framework too directly onto Madison’s World. As readers, we know Littles are people because we see their thoughts, feelings, memories, fear, love, and identity. But inside that world, most people are taught by the government, media, schools, and research institutions that Littles are not equal people. The average person is not walking around with our perspective. They are living in a society where the dominant belief is that Littles are lesser dependent beings.
That does not make the belief correct. But it does mean Greg was not surrounded by a culture telling him Cindy was obviously evil. He was surrounded by a culture telling him this was normal.
The fourth issue is calling Cindy a lobbyist in the exact way we use that word in the real world. Cindy was influential. She had a podcast. She supported causes and candidates. She encouraged donations. She helped shape public opinion. But Madison’s World does not have the same political structure as our world. There is not a normal legislative branch for her to lobby in the same way because power is far more centralized under the executive branch.
So yes, Cindy had influence. Yes, she helped normalize harmful beliefs. But describing Greg as knowingly married to a “pro-slavery lobbyist” is framing the situation through our world more than theirs.
The fifth issue is the idea that Greg is abandoning Cindy because he likes comfort. I don’t agree with that either. Greg is scared, dependent, and trying to survive in a household where Madison and McKenzie now control almost everything. Should he push harder for Cindy? Yes. But not pushing hard enough does not mean he does not love her or that he only cares about clothes, food, and head pats.
Greg’s failure is that he chooses peace too often. He tries to soften conflict instead of confronting it directly. That has always been his flaw. But that does not make him Cindy’s moral equal.
So no, I don’t think Greg is pro-slavery. I don’t think he is a monster. I don’t think he deserves to suffer the same way Cindy does as if he preached the same beliefs she did.
Greg failed by being passive.
Cindy failed by actively promoting the worldview.
Those are both failures, but they are not the same.
“Marriage means emotional support, financial partnership, raising children together, and building a life. It does not mean one spouse becomes equally responsible for every political or moral belief the other spouse promotes.”
Brother, respectfully, I will say it every time my point gets misinterpreted, I am not saying he is EQUALLY responsible for her beliefs and by supporting her in the ways you just said, he literally supports her. Would she be willing to break the family up if he had an honest conversation about how he wasn’t okay with those views and refused to support them? Or would it have made her think twice? I mean, he was already willing to overlook her being racist.
I am not taking responsibility away from Cindy. I never said he was purely responsible for her beliefs, but by virtue of that financial and emotional support, as well as being able to help her have free time to do her hateful podcast, he absolutely has enabled her to spread them.
In fact, it seems you are infantalizing him quite a bit. Everyone is treating him as if he is another child. As if he isn’t the one who chose to support a racist, pro slavery lobbyist. Who ignored her teaching not only their daughters, but other people’s children that that was correct. He is a grown ass adult, yet acts like he is their brother.
Literally their have been no redeeming qualities to Cindy. Why did he marry her and have kids with her? What traits did she have that were so positive that he was willing to overlook racism and dehumanization of people who are genetically different than her.
“He prioritized his marriage, his children, and family stability over a moral issue that did not personally affect him at the time.”
This is objectively untrue. It did affect him. She made money for their family from her advocacies through political donations. He could be ignoring that, but he objectively was being affected by her views, just positively. That doesn’t mean that that was the reason he ignored it, but it definitely helped.
That’s not really accurate to how Cindy’s money worked.
Cindy made money for the family through her actual job as a consultant. That was her career. The political donations were not money going into Cindy’s personal bank account or the family’s household income. They went to the causes, candidates, committees, or organizations she supported.
It’s like if someone organized a fundraiser for Save the Whales. The money raised goes to Save the Whales. The person organizing or promoting the fundraiser does not automatically get that money personally.
Cindy was influential, but influence and personal income are not the same thing.
She had a podcast, helped organize fundraisers, joined committees, supported causes, and used her platform to push her beliefs. But she was not making the family rich off political donations. Those donations were going toward the political movement and causes she supported.
So yes, Greg may have benefited from Cindy’s consulting career and whatever normal income she brought into the household. But that is different from saying Greg was financially benefiting from political donations or that Cindy was pocketing money from her advocacy.
“That’s fair in the sense that if Cindy made any money from the podcast and that money went into the household, then yes, Greg technically benefited from it. I’m not really arguing against that specific point.”
For the record, I keep saying he benefitted from it because you stated he did. Unless you just changed that.
Episode 35 if you are looking for the quote
Which episode 35? I looked at season 2 & 3 and there is no 35 in season 1.
season 3 episode 35? Unless I just missed it, I don’t see that wording, or I am not interpreting what you are referring to in that way.
I see, he was referring to one of your comments. You conceded that some of Cindy’s money may have gone to the household and thus Greg benefited.
I think the big hang up here is applying real world morals and values to the Smallara world. They are not the same.
Agreed the biggest disconnect is when our world’s categories are applied to a world that does not share them.
Madison’s World is not our exact society with Smallara added to it. It is its own world with its own history, government, culture, laws, science, and moral framework. In that world, Littles are not understood as humans who lost rights. They are understood as Littles, which is a separate dependent category of being.
That distinction is important to the setting.
Canonically, Littles are not slaves in Madison’s World/Smallara. They are Littles. Society does not define them as equal people being enslaved. It defines them as dependent beings who require guardianship, structure, training, and care.
That is why the dog, cat, or horse comparison matters in universe. I am not saying Littles are literally the same as animals. I am saying the category society places them in is closer to domestication and guardianship than citizenship.
In our world, we do not normally say a dog is enslaved because it wears a collar, learns commands, performs work, helps someone who is blind, herds sheep, hunts, or assists police. We view that through the lens of domestication, training, ownership, care, and responsibility.
Someone from a completely different culture or moral framework could look at that and say, “You are enslaving that animal.” They may genuinely believe that from their perspective. But that is not the category our society uses for dogs, horses, service animals, police dogs, hunting dogs, or farm animals.
Madison’s World applies a similar kind of category to Littles. A reader can reject that category. They can say it feels cruel, uncomfortable, or dehumanizing. That is fair. But inside the world, Littles are not legally or culturally understood as enslaved humans. They are understood as Littles.
So when someone says, “That would be slavery,” I understand where that reaction comes from, but that is not really how the world itself functions. Our world does not exist to them. Our legal history, our moral categories, our cultural assumptions, and our definition of slavery are not the lens they are using.
To the people in Madison’s World, this is not slavery because they do not view Littles as equal people being enslaved. They view them as a different category altogether.
That is the core premise of the setting.
That does not mean readers have to approve of how Littles are treated. They do not. The discomfort is intentional. Readers may reject the category the society has created for Littles, and that is a valid emotional reaction.
Well, that wasn’t exactly the intent behind that. Meaning the way it’s being used against Greg here isn’t what that comment meant. As a podcast would inherently generate some revenue. But revenue and net profit are not the same thing. There are hosting fees, cost of editing, equipment, etc., etc., etc.
So the point was there would be some finances from the podcast going into their bank accounts, but that’s not the same thing as net profit and actually making tangible income where they can spend without it costing money.
In his specific example, any funds generated from the podcast. In that specific scope, if even a penny enters the bank account based on his argument, that’s a benefit. So there was no way not to concede that.
As if I put ads on this website. Would I make income? Sure, but am I actually making a profit to cover the hosting fees? Most definitely not.
So I would still stand behind Greg not benefiting financially from Cindy’s little beliefs. As it wasn’t a money maker. More money was being spent on it than it made. Just like most other hobbies.
However, if it’s broadened to the point where the argument is any money entering the account regardless of expenses, labor, and cost, that’s broadening the scope to the point where I’m just lying if I say he’s not.
But I don’t believe in the spirit of making actual profits that have any sort of meaningful benefit to Greg or the family. The answer is no.
“That does not make the belief correct. But it does mean Greg was not surrounded by a culture telling him Cindy was obviously evil. He was surrounded by a culture telling him this was normal.”
Again, he is a grown ass adult. Was he never there when there was a little Cindy was “training” or when Charity and Evan were there? Has he never talked to one? That would be either terribly convenient or he would have had to be purposefully avoiding it for plausible deniability, which means he knows it was wrong but he is, again, okay with it.
“The fourth issue is calling Cindy a lobbyist in the exact way we use that word in the real world. Cindy was influential. She had a podcast. She supported causes and candidates. She encouraged donations. She helped shape public opinion. But Madison’s World does not have the same political structure as our world. There is not a normal legislative branch for her to lobby in the same way because power is far more centralized under the executive branch.”
No, she literally did lobby to have policy shaped around her shitty views. Lobbying just means attempting to influence government change. And she was lobbying for slavery. Doesn’t matter if there is a Congress or not, if you have a single issue influencing podcast for pro little slavery with a goal of influencing government decisions to teach kids this shit, she is lobbying.
“Greg’s failure is that he chooses peace too often. He tries to soften conflict instead of confronting it directly. That has always been his flaw. But that does not make him Cindy’s moral equal.
So no, I don’t think Greg is pro-slavery. I don’t think he is a monster. I don’t think he deserves to suffer the same way Cindy does as if he preached the same beliefs she did.”
Obligatory, I didn’t say he was her equal. But he was at least okay with slavery and he objectively was benefitting from her views.
My main point is, if he could stand by her while she helped normalize this shit, he should be willing to keep that energy now. But he is a coward and a bad husband. I don’t think either of them “deserve” slavery as Kenzie should be better than that, though I understand she is still growing and going through a lot.
Cindy has a lot to answer for, but I don’t want her arc to just be endless punishment either. The point isn’t supposed to be “how much can Cindy suffer?” It’s more about her being forced to live inside the worldview she helped support and what that does to her, Greg, Madison, and McKenzie.
“Greg’s mouth tightened.”
Hahahaha, never change Greg. I’m not just gonna reiterate my points, but this literally made me laugh out loud. Only thing that could’ve been better is if he took another bite of his pizza roll while he looked sad, while saying absolutely nothing, like he didn’t stand right next to his wife when she was part of the pro slavery lobby.
Cindy married a wet noodle who is fine with people being enslaved as long as it isn’t him and just kowtows to whoever is in power lol
You expect him to risk his little shirts and pizza rolls so he can be there for the woman he married and loved?
It’s like meatloaf said, “I would do anything for love, but I won’t do that.” Lol
1) “Oh good, you brought your tablet,” if she needed it, Evan should have told her to grab it
2) “I know you’re still upset about what I said about Charity.” I’m actually still upset about what she said about Littles in general
3) “A good Little speaks when spoken to and minds their Little manners.” This is one of Cindy’s less horrible lessons. Still not great though
4) “It looks like Greggy got a Pizza Roll, I’d offer you some, but you don’t do people food. Wouldn’t want you getting sick.” Rub it in why don’t you?
5) “Little Cindy will get it done, I know she will. The great Cindy Wessen is a hard Little worker.” That is what they force her to be
6) “They treated her like a Little because that was what she was to them now. They did not understand, and worse, Cindy was running out of ways to make them understand.” they understand fine. It’s Cindy who’s confused
7) “She almost asked for Madison to take her instead of leaving her with Evan” that’s what i was assuming would happen anyway, lol
8) “Ava, uncomfortable but quiet.” I’m starting to like Ava more, she may be the nicest here
9) “The conversation rolled on around them as if nothing significant had happened. School. Boys. Some argument in Ava’s class. A video Brooklyn insisted was hilarious. Krysi complaining that Madison’s freezer snacks were better than hers. Madison laughing at something Brooklyn said” standard teen banter
10) “Charity had been part of another world. Events. Donations. Families with money and influence.” The Stevens giving Cindy money despite knowing they’re vulnerable is a wildly stupid twist, lol
11) “The unfairness of it made Cindy’s hands shake slightly” that particular unfairness is Cindy’s own fault
12) “For the first time, she wondered if Charity hated the word too” I’m sure a lot of Littles hate the word you told the world they should be.
13) “The first question was about Little physiology and reinforcement response” Well played Broooklyn, well playe
6) i know. it’s ironic too in other ways. like the fact Madison said Greg was getting confused going back and forth between her and Kenzie while Cindy is more confused and insistent about being different than he is in terms of being a little. the only thing greg really had issues with was his words getting twisted by Madison when she speaks to Kenzie lol
6) This just emphasizes that Cindy still thinks of herself as something other than a Little.
8) She is starting to look the best of the bunch, but that is a low bar standards wise.
10) I don’t think it has been implied that they donated to causes that backed Cindy’s viewpoints. Of course they could have donated before they new they were vulnerable.
6) denial is one hell of a drug
8) she really is.
10) I thought saying “Cindy knew them through donations” (paraphrase) was implying that.
10) I can see that now.
1)I don’t think Evan should have had to remind Cindy to bring the tablet.
Cindy already knew she had tasks due. She knows what the tablet is for, she knows how the system works, and she knows what is expected of her. Evan giving her a little more freedom or a slight privilege does not mean she is now responsible for managing every part of Cindy’s routine.
If Cindy wants more trust and more flexibility, part of that is showing she can handle her responsibilities without someone constantly walking her through them. That is true for anyone in that kind of situation. If you get more freedom, but then that freedom makes you unable to do your job or meet your obligations, then the problem is not that someone failed to remind you. The problem is that you did not manage the responsibility that came with the privilege.
That does not mean Evan is perfect or that Cindy’s situation is easy. But in this specific case, I don’t think “she should have told her to grab it” really works. Cindy had already been assigned the work and knew what she needed to do.
2) Cindy did say alot of about littles So there is some irony in that. Cindy has alot to answer for and said alot wrong. Its a weird juxtapostion i feel like. As based on the world views Cindy did nothing wrong.
So the girls following through on what Cindy believes is just expected. Its the bare minimum of what anyone in there position should be doing. In fact doing anything else is borderline inhumane. Like kicking puppies,
3) If you replace little with child its basically what parents say to kids.
4) they only did so because you asked. they are like WWLD. Then acted on exactly what you would want and expect.
5) Its really what CIndy forced Cindy to be. As they are following CIndy’s methods with Cindy. So if Cindy was following the Chloe Gracewood school of little treatment she would have been treated better. Everyhting done to Cindy is exactly what she preached and wanted and believed in. Any variance is things that are actually better then what cindy would advocate. So really its not what they believe its what Cindy believe and wanted.
It would be like saying everyone deserves make only 16 dollars an hour regardless of where you live and what they do. Then being upset when someone applies that to them.
6) 100% none of them are confused as to what Cindy is and Cindy ensured everyone knows how to treat Cindy.
7) During Madison’s Greg time? She can get Cindy time whenever she wants.
8) I’m not saying shes not nice but the sample size is much lower.
10) There are other things to donate to then Smallara causes. It was being more broad in these are things the stevens family did. It doesnt in anyway mean they specifically donated to Smallara.
11) It really is. the unfairness that cindy created is really a self inflicted wound.
12) She probably doesnt like it but she may not inherently hate it either. Not knowing Charity’s thoughts is what makes this scene interesting to me. As she is prsesent but its left myesterious
13) She knew what she was doing. That is 100% for sure.
1) Right, but my point is if she’s expected to be working why take her out of the habitat? Logically it seemed like the expectation was for her to break from the work or whatever Evan wanted her for and return to it after.
2) True, Cindy was largely agreed, perhaps the average person would think she’s “a bit too strict” but otherwise the worst she’d get is disagreed with.
3) Not good parents, it reminds me of Sara telling Jordan to be “seen and not heard”
4) They should do that more often, and not just the sarcastic comments. I’m often disappointed by their actions. lol
5) Agreed
7) During Madison’s Greg time? She can get Cindy time whenever she wants.
8) Yeah, but I clarified that I was only counting “here”
12) Makes sense